Review each route

[Volandum]

I didn't know that. I think I still do not understand that this is maturity, because of the huge cost of every decision he makes in HF.

[iamin7ove]

I dont think thats his fault =o= ... Thats just the how everything around him turn out so badly like that :\...
(really, what with dark saber having the regen abilities almost as strong as wolverine =o=, btw )

[Occisor]

Yeah, everything has a huge cost, but he knows that and is accepting the burden of his sins.

By HF I meant Heaven's Feel. As I said, I don't see him maturing in that route, whereas he does very much so in UBW.

I'd like to know where you see him maturing more in UBW, even if it's a very good route with a lot of character development in it at the end shirou wins against archer because he has very little attachament to life and because he has strongers ideals, ideals that are a big utopia if you remember.
I don't see chasing a dream, that you are sure that is impossible, even if it cost your life mature.
It can result in a cool and awesome route, but I don't see the maturity in it.

Want recommendations of VNs to play?

I would like to hear some, it has been a while since I read something good

[Volandum]

My recommendations are basically that list - http://vndb.org/u6907/list?c=all;v=0;o=d;s=vote - in descending order by vote. (S)RPGs tend to be highly considered by me for their gameplay as well as storyline, though - Galaxy Angel, for instance, is a lot of fun. The story is pleasant, but hardly a classic. They're generally not unusual though, so there may be little new to you. I guess reading off the top of the list for story gives Suika, Brass Restoration and Collage.

I see. I guess it's a different perception of maturity - I see taking on sins as a selfish choice, and Shirou gets a lot of them. I think that in UBW Shirou does take a more tempered approach to his ideals - in Fate he and Saber are partners, but independently dedicated to their causes, hence Saber's departure. In UBW you have a different relationship with Rin (very different in UBW Good ending), and she takes care of him. It's been a year since I played F/SN though, so I may misremember. I don't think he dedicated himself to the ideal to the exclusion of life, otherwise Rin's self-promise about him (Do I recall right that she says she'll help him pursue his ideals without losing himself?) would not be possible.

I don't think that chasing impossible dreams is immature as such. Erdos, say, sought more-or-less the earthly creation of "god's little book of all elegant proofs", which is a utopian ideal. He did good work. Many mathematicians don't retire - they work until they are no longer productive, and then work to supervise the next generation of researchers. I mean, people become doctors because they want to save lives; goals like life extension by a million man-hours are more realistic but no more mature so long as one realises the obvious impossibility of the more general aim.

[Occisor]

In UBW and in Fate Shirou lives for his ideal, that doesn't change even when he see that it is impossible, In UBW he basically tells archer that even if it is impossible he will try anyways. His aim is seeing everybody happy, he won't be happy with the general aim. He did realise that his dream is impossible, but choose to ignore it and still will try to achieve it.
I say that he is still inmature because of that.

[Phlebas]

How did it come to this...

[Occisor]

It was my fault for putting Shirou as a example.

[Ghaleon]

Esperia is Yuuto's mother, and more or less stays this way, even into the special ending. The attempting to dump Aselia is very sad, indeed.

Want recommendations of VNs to play?

I've asked a few people for VN recommendations already but you're free to offer some too if you like. I want some that feature greater or equal gameplay content as EnA, are not completely 18+. I mean I don't mind if they are 18+, but I don't really want one that features nothing but rape or sex for over half the game, and it would need an english patch of some kind.

Anyway about Esperia being Yuuto's mother. I'm not sure I really agree with that. I just see Esperia as being an especially caring, considerate, and protective person. There's no maternal instinct involved specifically with those traits though. For example, when Yuuto's mind is being dominated by Desire, Esperia was going to waste him for his own good. Most mothers would not do such a thing. I don't really want to force that idea on you if you really think she acts like his mother. But I will say that some people have different desires in a relationship, and some people have other things they are willing to offer/provide to a relationship. I myself like cooking, and I'd enjoy doing it for any girlfriend, but at the same time I'd like it if I could take turns with one, we'd learn some tricks from each other, and enjoy each other's work. Being a woman, or a mother has absolutely nothing to do with cooking IMO. Just because a parent has to because a young child cannot doesn't make it a motherly trait IMO.

Anyway, I see Yuuto and Esperia offering each other 100% commitment and effort towards protecting each other from anything that can harm the other physically, mentally, and emotionally. Neither really depends on the other in a 1-way fashion IMO, so I just can't see Esperia as being Yuuto's mother, or inequal. Though she does treat him with this kind of devotion before he treats her the same way (she does for everyone though, it's just her nature).

[Occisor]

I agree with you in your vision of the relationship between Esperia and Yuuto. If I didn' post it myself it's because I didn't know how to express it in english.

And if you want some visual novels, if haven't them already, i'd strongly suggest you to play Fate Stay/night and Tskihime.

[iamin7ove]

Just like book traps, now we fell into visual novel trap =o=
Just a tag and we get a whole story hahaha
At least it shows that we all have good passion : P