v1.0 Bug/Misspelling/Grammar Mistake Report Thread

[Andros]

Actually, "Yousei" directly stands only for that - Fey! While I can understand your point, it doesn't reflect their purpose in Tears to Tiara. If they were meant to be Elves by Leaf then they would be called "Erufu" or something akin to that. As you already posted, the Welsh and Irish mythology plays a big part in this game and for exactly this reason they shouldn't be translated as 'elves' since these have germanic and norse roots. Another example is that while house fey/shoe fey/seal fey/mining fey do exist in diverse european mythologies, house elves/shoe elves/mining elves/ect. do not. Heck, they are even called the "Good Folk" in Tears to Tiara - an alias only the Fey Folk have!
Everywhere I look, this game screams that "Yousei" stands for Fey.


As for the Seirei... I almost pity them to being lowered as angels. Don't forget the holy spirit (as in monotheistian religions), guardian spirits, nature spirits or deity spirits. These god-like beings play a major part in Shamanism, Shinto, ect. and fit neater in Tears to Tiara than Angels. That, and it simply strikes people who played the original game as incredible odd that the original 13 holy spirits are now called 'angels'.

[Phlebas]

Actually, "Yousei" directly stands only for that - Fey! While I can understand your point, it doesn't reflect their purpose in Tears to Tiara. If they were meant to be Elves by Leaf then they would be called "Erufu" or something akin to that. As you already posted, the Welsh and Irish mythology plays a big part in this game and for exactly this reason they shouldn't be translated as 'elves' since these have germanic and norse roots. Another example is that while house fey/shoe fey/seal fey/mining fey do exist in diverse european mythologies, house elves/shoe elves/mining elves/ect. do not. Heck, they are even called the "Good Folk" in Tears to Tiara - an alias only the Fey Folk have!
Everywhere I look, this game screams that "Yousei" stands for Fey.


As for the Seirei... I almost pity them to being lowered as angels. Don't forget the holy spirit (as in monotheistian religions), guardian spirits, nature spirits or deity spirits. These god-like beings play a major part in Shamanism, Shinto, ect. and fit neater in Tears to Tiara than Angels. That, and it simply strikes people who played the original game as incredible odd that the original 13 holy spirits are now called 'angels'.

I don't really feel like launching to a mythological discussion here, so I'll keep it at the practical level...
I find it rather striking that you somehow find 'spirit' (a term encompassing almost unlimited lower class creatures) sounding more majestetic than angel (which is a term reserved for heavenly beings - which is exactly what it refers to in this game). And, you've never heard of House Elves and Shoemaker Elves...?
The most important point about yousei anyway is that faeries are small creatures, while elves are human-sized. It'd simply look weird to call these guys faeries (not to mention it wouldn't look good in context).
Also, the usage of the term seirei pretty much renders any usage of a compound translation unviable (we did consider the alternatives).

I can see the point for using faery with respect to the Arthurian legends, but I think it'd just confuse most readers - since Leaf is only borrowing the term without its cultural content (check the name of the item shop if you're in danger of overestimating their cultural knowledge).

[Andros]

You are aware of the fact that the celtic fey are nothing like tiny humans with insect-wings, right? In many legends they are not much unlike humans in size and such, take Morgan la Fay as example if you like. So I don't really see a problem to call them Fey. And I guess you mean by house elves ect. brownies, heinzelmaennchen and other fey kinds akin to them? If so then calling them elves is misleading.

While seeing your point about calling the Seirei 'angels', it is still not the best solution to call them that. Personally, I would just call them by their original name 'Seirei' and make a small note in furigana if need arised. But maybe that's just my way of thinking.

Nevertheless, great work done with this translation project.

[Phlebas]

You are aware of the fact that the celtic fey are nothing like tiny humans with insect-wings, right? In many legends they are not much unlike humans in size and such, take Morgan la Fay as example if you like. So I don't really see a problem to call them Fey. And I guess you mean by house elves ect. brownies, heinzelmaennchen and other fey kinds akin to them? If so then calling them elves is misleading.

I just have to point out that Morgan la Fey is part of medieval germanic writing, and was originally a fairy who then transformed into a human . She's part of the medieval movement in literature from the original magical creatures into 'enchantresses'. But yeah cheers, and your opinion is noted hehe.

[Balcerzak]

My OS is Windows Vista Home Premium (SP1) 64 bit edition. I have Japanese fonts installed and the language for non-Unicode programs set to Japanese. Other computer specs can be provided if necessary.

After patching, trying to run the program yielded the following. (NB: The errors show up individually, first with the "Cannot open font24", then "font12", then "grp, bitmap", then "bitmap", then finally the windows error message. Images are thumbnailed; click for larger versions.)


A cursory investigation of the directories showed that it just dumped all of the files into the base "Program Files (x86)" directory.


Upon some discussion in the IRC channel (specifically when questioned about Locale), I was eventually reminded that i hadn't installed a raw JP version of the game, and having been spoiled by some of mirror moon's installers naively assumed the patcher would at some point ask me for the location of the install disk. It didn't, however, and patching ran to completion; it was only upon launching the TTT English (as the patcher prompted in its final step) that the first indication appeared that something was wrong.

Upon having realized my mistake, I went and deleted the stray files, installed TTT (which went to my "Program Files" directory). Then I reran the patcher. The first time it did exactly what it did last time, which was dump the patch files randomly into "Program Files (x86)" directory, which is not helpful. I then was just going to copy-paste the files into the "Leaf/Tears to Tiara" directory, but since I'm still unused to Vista's replace/overwrite file prompt, I thought I may have bungled it, so I tried patching a third time. This time it appeared to correctly find the original JP install, and patched things properly.

Following this, I uninstalled, to test for reproducibility. The patcher once again tries to patch an installation that does not exist (rather than aborting with an error). After going back and doing a proper install, this time around the patcher correctly found the JP install on the first try, so I don't really know what went wrong last time. Probably PEBKAC or me misremembering what actually happened or maybe something interesting with registry entries, I just can't say. I wasn't going to post this as a report, as it was mostly just me failing epically, but it was suggested I do so. Probably for the benefit of others who might make similar mistakes.

[Mkilbride]

I can't run it in Windowed Mode, I get an "Error 59" or something. I could the first few times I started it, but not now. It only gives me a Yes or No option and Yes make's it Full Screen.

Vista 64-bit, SP1. GeForce 8800 GT, Q6600, 4GB of RAM. I think this is enough info.

Note, game did not run well in Windowed, would crash often, but now Windowed does not work.

[Andros]

Not sure if it's really a misspelling or not but these elite Orcus monsters are labeled as 'Arch-Orchus', shouldn't they be labeled as 'Arch-Orcus' instead? If I'm wrong feel free to ignore this matter.

Another small thing I found while playing was with the scene where Arawn, Epona & Llyr were babysitting the tribes children: one dialogue of Arawn was labeled as 'Boy' and not with his name.

[Shun]

@Mkilbride
Err.. I don't have a Vista Machine but try your compatibility options on the program. There should be a compatibility tab when you go the properties of the shortcut. Play with that a bit and see what happens.

The XP compatibility mode works much better, especially for games, if you also click the last 3 checkboxes in the dialog box that have to do with graphics. This forces Vista out of Aero mode when the program runs.

This allowed me to play several games that were not working on Vista.

Not sure, but that is what I found randomly online. Personally you would have a hard time getting me to actually use Vista for my primary machine. I use a LOT of older programs, and generally older programs + Vista = Shit out of luck. It was the same with XP... in a few years it won't be as serious. Well I can hope.


Hmm.. what about without the patch? How does it run off a base installation?



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@Andros
Are you really sure on that Yousei deal? My dictionary very clearly states that yousei can mean just about any fey like creature(elves, sprites, and fairies that sort of deal).

Anyways, here is a simple test for you. Go out to a local city(if you don't actually live in one) and waylay people with a description of the Fey Folk. Say something like, "This is a mythological race, can you tell which one it is?" and then describe them. I can almost guarantee you that 60-80% will call that thing an elf here in the states. It would depend on how many history/mythology buffs you run into.

When it comes to translating for the public at large you 'should' translate in a way so that your audience can understand you in the best way possible. In this case Elf is probably more fitting than Fairy and Fey would require notes(no one I asked knew what a fey was. The closest were the people who knew about Morgan le Fey, and so they said Fey's are witches an sorceresses... err.. no cigar). Maybe I just live in a very 'stupid' area(I doubt it, our schools place very well state wide, we just don't DEEPLY study mythology here). Meanwhile if I throw elf around almost everyone knows there are various kinds of elves. Harry potter has the house elves. And DnD has more kinds of elves than you can shake a tree at.

Also fey is bad because it doesn't show up right in either the web or the dictionary at a cursory glance. The first thing someone looking Wiki for will see is Fey is a word for Fairies. And most people I know would stop there with the imaginings of Tinker Bell. Though they would read the article after being confused by the game for a while. And google pops up Fairies first and then Leprechauns.


Anyhow from my standpoint I would have loved the Yousei with translation notes option(same with Seirei). I find it fascinating to read up on the mythology and language differences. However, for even a lot of Japanese Video game fans(those that use fan translations) that I know... well they find it very very irritating unless there is no way to find a close approximation. It interrupts their immersion too much they say.

[Andros]

@Andros
Are you really sure on that Yousei deal? My dictionary very clearly states that yousei can mean just about any fey like creature(elves, sprites, and fairies that sort of deal).

Yes I'm 100% sure on this Yousei matter. Elves and Fey, at least in japanese media (anime, fairy tales, romans, games of all kinds, ect.), are different entities altogether. Their view of Fey is most likely akin to Youkai (as in many subraces divided and able to disguise themselves as humans), while elves are more close to forest-dwelling humans with pointy ears. If the 妖精 were intended by Leaf to be elves then they would be named エルフ, but this is not the case in Tears to Tiara. Of couse, they didn't use every aspect of RL mythologies/legends (in fact, no eroge actually does this - and probably never will) but rather created their own game universe and stuff. As such I really don't see the difficulty to call the Fey 'Fey', if you know what I mean!

Anyhow from my standpoint I would have loved the Yousei with translation notes option(same with Seirei). I find it fascinating to read up on the mythology and language differences. However, for even a lot of Japanese Video game fans(those that use fan translations) that I know... well they find it very very irritating unless there is no way to find a close approximation. It interrupts their immersion too much they say.

Now that's a bummer (and a pretty lazy of them, if you ask me) . . . such viewpoints lowers the richness of this game dramatically.

[Kurogane]

For people who are playing on Vista and have problems saving your game, I have an alternative method to use so that you don't have to force Admin mode every time you launch the game and get irritated with the UAC popup (if you want to use UAC).

1. Go to your Program Files/Leaf folder.
2. Right click on the Leaf folder, select Properties.
3. From there, open the Security tab and click on the Edit button.
4. This will pop-up the file/folder security permissions editor, and from there you'll see a list of Group or Usernames.
5. From here, select the Users Group or your own username and check "Full Control" in the Permissions for Users box below.
6. Click on OK, close the dialog boxes and now you should be able to save your TtT games w/o any problems.