Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Discuss the translation of Eien no Aselia - Kono Daichi no Hate de.
ABC123
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:15 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by ABC123 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:19 am

I can only assume that the erasure because of the gate is somehow different. I guess you can think of it as if the trigger is leaving the world that since Tokimi rewinded time to before that they remember her so she preempted the trigger so no one forgot her. However forgetting Yuuto was different since the trigger was the gate rather than the action of leaving. This means unless she were to make it so he never entered the gate they couldn't remember him (of course this would mean he'd no longer be eternal too). Though to me it comes to a lot of misinformation anyways since Tokimi is a darn liar.....kinda hard to tell the truth of how everything works when most of the explanations come from her mouth.
But to leave you must use the gate. Act of leaving the world requires the gate and Tokimi's ability rewind time isn't effective against Eternals as they aren't bound by time. If she could its strange why she didn't do so against Shun.

YamiLeto
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by YamiLeto » Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:38 am

ABC123 wrote:
I can only assume that the erasure because of the gate is somehow different. I guess you can think of it as if the trigger is leaving the world that since Tokimi rewinded time to before that they remember her so she preempted the trigger so no one forgot her. However forgetting Yuuto was different since the trigger was the gate rather than the action of leaving. This means unless she were to make it so he never entered the gate they couldn't remember him (of course this would mean he'd no longer be eternal too). Though to me it comes to a lot of misinformation anyways since Tokimi is a darn liar.....kinda hard to tell the truth of how everything works when most of the explanations come from her mouth.
But to leave you must use the gate. Act of leaving the world requires the gate and Tokimi's ability rewind time isn't effective against Eternals as they aren't bound by time. If she could its strange why she didn't do so against Shun.
Ok quick explanation of what I really meant...cause it's obvious you didn't quite get what I meant. The incident with the gate is only Yuuto actually and it's the rite that wipes him from time in essence so this is barring him from the past. This means that he didn't exist in the past period so rewind wouldn't do squat. However leaving a world only erases the memories of the people. And this is related to the people and not the eternals themselves. So why would rewind work for people not forgetting Tokimi after rewinding time? It's as simple as this: they forget only when the person leaves the world. They don't forget prior to the eternal leaving otherwise no one would notice the eternals (cause they'd be forgotten every frickin second). Tokimi rewound the world to before they left and since they didn't leave again it was as if Tokimi never left Phantasmagoria therefore no forgetting. That make more sense? Just remember Tokimi stood OUTSIDE the gate that wipes them from time totally if nothing else.

ABC123
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:15 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by ABC123 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:12 am

Ok quick explanation of what I really meant...cause it's obvious you didn't quite get what I meant. The incident with the gate is only Yuuto actually and it's the rite that wipes him from time in essence so this is barring him from the past. This means that he didn't exist in the past period so rewind wouldn't do squat. However leaving a world only erases the memories of the people. And this is related to the people and not the eternals themselves. So why would rewind work for people not forgetting Tokimi after rewinding time? It's as simple as this: they forget only when the person leaves the world. They don't forget prior to the eternal leaving otherwise no one would notice the eternals (cause they'd be forgotten every frickin second). Tokimi rewound the world to before they left and since they didn't leave again it was as if Tokimi never left Phantasmagoria therefore no forgetting. That make more sense? Just remember Tokimi stood OUTSIDE the gate that wipes them from time totally if nothing else.
Was he really erased from humanity? And was it required? Shun wasn't forgotten all he gained was a Rank II sword and he just became an eternal. Its possible that its the swords influence thats causing memory wipe / manipulation just like how Rank 5 Sword Oath was able make people believe empire existed. The game is contradicting itself in many points and almost everything is up to speculations.

YamiLeto
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by YamiLeto » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:26 am

ABC123 wrote:
Ok quick explanation of what I really meant...cause it's obvious you didn't quite get what I meant. The incident with the gate is only Yuuto actually and it's the rite that wipes him from time in essence so this is barring him from the past. This means that he didn't exist in the past period so rewind wouldn't do squat. However leaving a world only erases the memories of the people. And this is related to the people and not the eternals themselves. So why would rewind work for people not forgetting Tokimi after rewinding time? It's as simple as this: they forget only when the person leaves the world. They don't forget prior to the eternal leaving otherwise no one would notice the eternals (cause they'd be forgotten every frickin second). Tokimi rewound the world to before they left and since they didn't leave again it was as if Tokimi never left Phantasmagoria therefore no forgetting. That make more sense? Just remember Tokimi stood OUTSIDE the gate that wipes them from time totally if nothing else.
Was he really erased from humanity? And was it required? Shun wasn't forgotten all he gained was a Rank II sword and he just became an eternal. Its possible that its the swords influence thats causing memory wipe / manipulation just like how Rank 5 Sword Oath was able make people believe empire existed. The game is contradicting itself in many points and almost everything is up to speculations.
This is why we say Tokimi is a filthy filthy liar. Becoming an eternal doesn't require you to be wiped however it happens to Yuuto and the others. Still not sure though if it's due to Tokimi or some rule within the Chaos Eternals group. Course as I said in another thread I still think it's a good thought though to wipe memories so that eternals aren't tormented by the pasts they choose to leave behind. Or at the very least it's easier to leave a planet after everyone you know has forgotten you anyways. Though I gotta admit there are still contradictions that seriously need to be answered at some point. Namely how even though it does seem to be the case that eternals don't need to be forgotten Orpha is forgotten when she goes eternal on her route which wasn't done through the gate.

AQZT
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:41 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by AQZT » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:30 am

On a totally unrelated note to this discussion, 'Oath' is Rank 4, not 5.

ABC123
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:15 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by ABC123 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:36 am

There are just too many questions unanswered...

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AQZT
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:41 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by AQZT » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:52 am

ABC123 wrote:There are just too many questions unanswered...

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Hmmmm... Need to report that in the mistakes thread... Or at least check it. After all, Nighteye said it was fourth rank...
Plus, in Shun's description it says that 'Oath' is the same rank as 'Desire', but it's listed as fifth rank?

ABC123
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:15 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by ABC123 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:02 am

Now I think about it... Its odd that oath was considered strongest of the 4 swords when its rank is only 5.

teiglin
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by teiglin » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:44 am

I don't quite understand why people are hung up on the fact that Shun isn't forgotten. He never leaves the world, so people in Phantasmagoria don't forget him. I'm not denying there are many apparent plot holes and just plain confusion around time, Eternals, and memories, but this one at least seems nominally consistent with the basic explanation that Eternals are forgotten when they leave the world.

ABC123
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:15 pm

Re: Quick question on Tokimi's route...(huge spoilers)

Post by ABC123 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:27 am

teiglin wrote:I don't quite understand why people are hung up on the fact that Shun isn't forgotten. He never leaves the world, so people in Phantasmagoria don't forget him. I'm not denying there are many apparent plot holes and just plain confusion around time, Eternals, and memories, but this one at least seems nominally consistent with the basic explanation that Eternals are forgotten when they leave the world.
Because according to Tokimi becoming an Eternal with cause people forget the said person but Shun wasn't forgotten. Takios and Temuorin is also an Eternal and they weren't forgotten by Yuuto or Aselia so its not consistent at all. Its highly possible Tokimi isn't the only one lying too.

Since 99% of the things are not properly explained nothing is consistent.

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