Story dissection *major spoilers*

Discuss the translation of Eien no Aselia - Kono Daichi no Hate de.
Hanekem
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:18 pm

Story dissection *major spoilers*

Post by Hanekem » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:00 pm

So, being new here and with no story discussion thread decided to go ahead and create one.

Having finished Aselia's path I am looking back and there are some parts of the story I find it lacking.
For instance, the Eternal angle, or the fact that the way chaos eternal get their swords "erases" them from every non eternal's memory.
After all Shun got... ok, ok, it was Oath, but still, no memory lossage there, it felt something to " make it hard on the hero" or something. Felt stapled on to me. and kinda surprised nobody called Tokimi on that.

To be honest I was half expecting to see Desire surviving somehow (I didn't like wisdom, or the titles that came associated with the swords, it is kinda presumptuous, but that's me...)
After all, with that surviving fragment of desire, dunno, guess the nutcase grew on me, or something. Still the pendant that Yuuto gave to his sister? that felt like a Chekhov's gun. is it followed up in any other path? exclusive to Aselia's or touched in a follow up game?

On the other hand I found the fight between the friends to be gut wrenching, really hated not being able to avoid killing them on the first play through... though gotta admit is fitting.

shiirn
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Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:48 am

Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by shiirn » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:08 pm

Having done Aselia, Kyouko, and Tokimi's path, i can safely say that the pendant has only shown up in Aselia's route - But then again, when Desire breaks in Kyouko/Tokimi's route, he doesn't go apeshit and gets temporary memory loss, he remembers it all. Maybe it happens in any other route where the OMG factor causes his BSOD to have some memory loss.

I did find Desire's "Death" quite an asspull, he was quite the character compared to the other swords - Void was just KILL KILL KILL; Karma was just all over-the top "i-so-wise", Oath was...well "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHH A HAH AH HAHHHHAHAHAHAA" to say the least.


Killing your friends off in the first playthrough was something I found quite good; at least from a "tragic story" standpoint since when you're on your first playthrough you're pretty much guarunteed to get Aselia's route if you're not playing specifically to get another route.


A way of looking at Shun not disappearing from people's memory was that Shun didn't get turned into an Eternal. His Sword took him over so much that he ceased to exist, and then the SWORD became an Eternal-tier sword that just happened to have a mentally vacated corpse to control. Basically, Shun "died" a normal death, so everyone remembered him. This was touched on very slightly in Tokimi's path, when Yuuto straight-out asked Tokimi "But everyone remember shun, what the fuck?"
PM me for a table of CE addresses for all the spirits in Eien no Aselia. If you don't know what I mean, just be on your way...
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Hanekem
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:18 pm

Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by Hanekem » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:21 pm

I haven't completed Tokimi's route but in Kyoko's she is asked to touch the gate before Kyoko calls for Reliance, it is the gate that erases, not the sword acknowledging the wielder. That was one of the reasons it bugged me, plus rewriting history to fill the gaps? man, that is not something that makes much sense, cause and effect, remove a person and ripples would be incalculable.

On the other hand, I gotta admit that every time a story brings memory manipulation and is so cavalier about it it pisses me off, sparks an irrational hatred. Honestly, can't think of a worse violation of self than that, because is something so private and is something the victim won't know.

shiirn
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Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by shiirn » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:38 pm

People don't remember Eternals so that there will be added drama to becoming one.
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YamiLeto
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Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by YamiLeto » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:57 am

I gotta admit I actually kinda like that when someone becomes an eternal that people forget the person. Why? Well if I look at it from a personal perspective I notice an odd ease of suffering. I mean imagine you're being left behind by someone to become immortal but you remember this and know they're running around while you KNOW they're gonna outlive you. That would rip me to shreds thinking that this eternal is gonna see all their friends grow old and die. At least with the memory loss the bonds are cut and the eternal has no reason to stick around and watch their loved ones grow old and die in front of them.

Though I'm a little curious about the memory loss thing about a few other facts. For one in Lesteena's path she forgets you again when you leave the world and so when you come back she doesn't know who you are....I do believe that after first meeting at the shrine Yuuto never forgot Tokimi (until after desire breaks and that's temporary and on purpose). Sooooo here's my question...Why does Lesteena forget when he leaves the world while Yuuto remembers Tokimi after being thrown to a different world?

Oh and any ideas about a conflict of theories on Orpha's route? It mentioned that Orpha's sword is rebirth in the end but they destroyed rebirth........so is it too different swords? I thought at first it was just split like Tokimi did with finality to assure she could return alive using the sword as an escape route.....but it didn't mention that the sword rejoined it's split half or anything. Any ideas here?

Phlebas
Dakkodango Staff
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Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by Phlebas » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:44 am

We've given these a fair bit of thought too, and I'm pretty confident about getting the essentials down. Follows an answer to all questions arising from Tokimi's explanations.

Be warned that it is so heavily spoileric it may destroy your impression of characters :lol:

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Tokimi is a filthy, filthy liar, question everything she says. She is inherently incredibly excellent at manipulation (read her route and you'll know), so she knows exactly what to say to get things go the way she wants - and what she wants is to get in Yuuto's pants. The one time Yuuto starts asking for too many questions, she silences him in the most basic and effective way (see below). Every other word that comes out of her mouth is a half-truth, a twisted truth, or a lie :D .
  • Fact (as pointed out above): becoming an Eternal does not wipe you from existence. C.f.:
    *On all routes where it is brought up, Yuuto becomes an Eternal when he gets his sword, but already undergoes the memory wipe upon entering the gate to the Labyrinth of Time.
    *Going to the Labyrinth of Time is not required to become an Eternal - Shun does not go there (obviously - it's only keeping some Chaos Eternal swords), and neither does Kyouko. The gate is just that -a gate to the swords' keeping place, which has the side effect of wiping the hapless fools who touch it from existence.
    *Becoming an Eternal does not wipe you from memories: Shun is not forgotten, Yuuto is forgotten before becoming Eternal, Kyouko wouldn't have needed to be forgotten at all.
    *Traversing worlds does not wipe you from memories: putting aside the Temuorin and Takios trips, Kaori forgets Yuuto even though she's in another world.
  • Hypothesis:
    *The memory wipe is something of an initiation rite or procedure for Chaos Eternals - some might even argue for the benefits of it, as poster above. I rather prefer this explanation to the one that Tokimi is just being jealous and overpossessive and wants to sever his connections to the others dear to him, since she's rather portrayed a little childish than plain nasty.
On that subject, I'm surprised no one pointed out the controversy over Yuuto's alleged 'eligibility' to enter the labyrinth (and which no one else obviously needs) :D, which comes back to the very same point. Here's my rephrasing of the extended dialogue from Tokimi's route:

"I must lose my virginity with you in order to open the gate to the Corridors of Time, but I'm prepared to make that sacrifice if you are so willing."
"Whoa, what? Why must you do that?!"
"It's a requirement for us to enter the sanctuary of the swords."
"Eh, what, how can that be, something like that?"
"It's a requirement."
"Hang on, who requires it? The swords? Or is there some gatekeeper who checks?"
"It's required."
"Eh, I don't really get it, that doesn't make any sense to me..."
"I REQUIRE IT, ALL RIGHT!!? JUST SHUT UP AND DO IT OR I'LL NEVER TAKE YOU THERE!!!"
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shiirn
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Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by shiirn » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:51 am

Phlebas wrote:"I must lose my virginity with you in order to open the gate to the Corridors of Time, but I'm prepared to make that sacrifice if you are so willing."
"Whoa, what? Why must you do that?!"
"It's a requirement for us to enter the sanctuary of the swords."
"Eh, what, how can that be, something like that?"
"It's a requirement."
"Hang on, who requires it? The swords? Or is there some gatekeeper who checks?"
"It's required."
"Eh, I don't really get it, that doesn't make any sense to me..."
"I REQUIRE IT, ALL RIGHT!!? JUST SHUT UP AND DO IT OR I'LL NEVER TAKE YOU THERE!!!"
Yeah, when I heard her going on about "eligibility" my first thought was "So a sex scene was there before, I see"

When you've read as many visual novels as I have, hearing someone scam someone else into sex with a half-baked excuse for "THE FEIT OF THE WORLD DEPENDS ON YOUR PANOOS" doesn't even cause a batted eyelash anymore.
PM me for a table of CE addresses for all the spirits in Eien no Aselia. If you don't know what I mean, just be on your way...
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EchoMateria
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Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by EchoMateria » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:04 am

Reading those shouldn't make you think of Tokimi as a bad person though. She is simply a desperate girl, about her 500 year old love for Yuuto. Though you can say that she is a manipulative bitch about everything she does, I still can't bear myself to blame her for the things she does. Read her monologue at the end of our guide, if you haven't yet, to see what I mean.

Phlebas
Dakkodango Staff
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Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by Phlebas » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:09 am

Oh yes, I don't mean to flame her, just poking a bit of fun, all in good humor. I don't dislike her in the least despite finding myself unable to believe a word she says in most situations :D.
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shiirn
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:48 am

Re: Story dissection *spoilers*

Post by shiirn » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:10 am

Still, the least she could do was ASK if he could lay with her instead of pretty much forcing him to do it.

She's far too dere and even her tsun is easily seen through, so she's really rather amusing.
PM me for a table of CE addresses for all the spirits in Eien no Aselia. If you don't know what I mean, just be on your way...
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